The Gray Area with Sean Illing Podcast

For decades, the American right has stayed on brand: the economy. Low taxes. Free markets. Deregulation. Those have been the buzzwords for more than half a century. But that doctrine is now being challenged by other conservatives who envision a future in which Americas trade deficit is lower, manufacturing returns to the US, and Americans buy more American-made products. Is this future even possible?



Economist Oren Cass thinks it is.



In todays episode, the founder of the think tank America Compass speaks to Sean about right-wing economic populism. The two discuss a conservative, pro-worker approach to economic policy, Casss plan to bring manufacturing back to the US, and what types of behavior economic policy should incentivize.



Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling)Guest: Oren Cass, chief economist and founder of American Compass. Editor ofThe New Conservatives: Restoring America's Commitment to Family, Community, and Industry.



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Sebastian Junger came as close as you possibly can to dying. While his doctors struggled to revive him, the veteran reporter and avowed rationalist experienced things that shocked and shook him, leaving him with profound questions and unexpected revelations. In his book, In My Time of Dying, he explores the mysteries and commonalities of people’s near-death experiences.



In this episode, which originally aired in May 2024, he joins Sean to talk about what it’s like to almost die and what quantum physics can tell us about the afterlife.



Host: Sean Illing (⁠⁠@SeanIlling⁠⁠)

Guest: Sebastian Junger, journalist and author of ⁠⁠In My Time of Dying: How I Came Face to Face With the Idea of an Afterlife⁠



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Almost nothing stands the test of time. Machiavelli's writings are a rare exception.



Why are we still talking about Machiavelli, nearly 500 years after his death? What is it about his political philosophy that feels so important, prescient, or maybe chilling today?



In this episode, Sean speaks with political philosopher and writer Erica Benner about Niccolo Machiavelli’s legacy. The two discuss The Prince, Machiavelli’s views on democracy, and what he might say about the Trump administration were he alive today.



Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling)Guest: Erica Benner, political philosopher, historian, and author of Be Like the Fox



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We’re told from a young age to achieve. Get good grades. Get into a good school. Get a good job. Be ambitious about earning a high salary or a high-status position.



Some of us love this endless climb. But lots of us, at least once in our lives, find ourselves asking, "What’s the point of all this ambition?"Historian and author Rutger Bregman doesn’t think there is a point to that kind of ambition. Instead, he wants us to be morally ambitious, to measure the value of our achievements based on how much good we do, by how much we improve the world.



In this episode, Bregman speaks with guest host Sigal Samuel about how to know if you’re morally ambitious, the value of surrounding yourself with like-minded people, and how to make moral ambition fashionable.



Host: Sigal Samuel, Vox senior reporter

Guest: Rutger Bregman, historian, author of Moral Ambition, and co-founder of The School for Moral Ambition



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Show Notes

Vox’s Good Robot series can be found here:

Episode 1

Episode 2

Episode 3 (discusses the "drowning child thought experiment" and effective altruism)

Episode 4





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What do you do when you’re faced with evidence that challenges your ideology? Do you engage with that new information? Are you willing to change your mind about your most deeply held beliefs? Are you pre-disposed to be more rigid or more flexible in your thinking?



That’s what political psychologist and neuroscientist Leor Zmigrod wants to know. In her new book, The Ideological Brain, she examines the connection between our biology, our psychology, and our political beliefs.



In today’s episode, Leor speaks with Sean about rigid vs. flexible thinking, how our biology and ideology influence each other, and the conditions under which our ideology is more likely to become extreme.



Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling)Guest: Leor Zmigrod, political psychologist, neuroscientist, and author of The Ideological Brain



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Help us plan for the future of The Gray Area by filling out a brief survey: ⁠voxmedia.com/survey⁠. Thank you! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices