Psychedelic Medicine Podcast with Dr. Lynn Marie Morski Podcast

In this episode, Dori Lewis, MA, MEd, LPC-S discusses the common myths and misconceptions surrounding psilocybin for healing. Dori is a psychotherapist, co-founder of Elemental Psychedelics, and owner of Reflective Healing in Fort Collins, CO, who specializes in psychedelic-assisted therapy, blending transpersonal psychology with spiritual practices. With experience facilitating ketamine sessions and training clinicians, she advocates for ethical standards in psychedelic medicine while championing a feminine-centered approach to facilitator training.

The first myth that Dori addresses in this conversation is the idea that it is the psilocybin mushroom itself that does all the healing work. Contrary to this common misconception, Dori suggests that it is the client’s own initiative working in tandem with the mushroom that really spurs healing. She also emphasizes that there are not any set protocols for how often psilocybin should be taken for healing, instead suggesting that clients should be guided to attune to their own internal intuition to determine when a psilocybin journey may be particularly helpful. 

Another misconception Dori addresses is that healing with psilocybin can occur without causing deep transformations in one’s identity or shifts in one’s worldview. She suggests facilitators must be very transparent about these possible impacts to best prepare clients for these kinds of major changes that psilocybin can catalyze. In closing, Dori reiterates that clients should be supported and prepared to encounter intense emotional experiences with psilocybin, as some of the most difficult psychedelic journeys can actually be the most healing.

In this episode, you'll hear:

The biggest myths and misconceptions Dori encounters working with clients in her practice

The importance of a relational understanding of psychedelic healing

The specific types of trauma where psilocybin may be a particularly effective healing modality 

The training for psilocybin facilitators in Colorado under the Natural Medicines Program and the importance of scope of practice

Why some people’s mental health gets worse before it gets better following a psilocybin experience

What can cause lack of response to psilocybin therapy and how better preparation can often mitigate this

Quotes:

“Mushrooms are amazing and they can help us in our healing journey. But they are one tool in a mosaic of other tools that we can use to help ourselves heal and grow and change.” [6:54]

“I don’t really know where this message came from—that mushrooms cure PTSD—but that is a huge myth. They can help—with certain types of trauma within the context of a healthy therapeutic relationship with a skilled provider, yes, at times when it is right. But ultimately the best medicine for trauma is going to be MDMA—and ketamine.” [18:18]

“It is the responsibility of providers and facilitators to inform clients of the realistic expectations they should have for their [psychedelic] journeys—and that is also an ethical need and something that facilitators need to consider through an ethical lens.” [25:20]

“There’s a lot to be said about the unique ways that mushrooms express through our bodies and through our minds and through our hearts that give us information about where we are at and where we need to work or continue to work in order to access the healing we so desire.” [37:34]

Links:

Dori on LinkedIn

Elemental Psychedelics on LinkedIn

Elemental Psychedelics website  

Previous episode: Integrating Challenging Psychedelic Experiences with Keith Kurlander, MA

Previous episode: The Challenging Psychedelic Experiences Project with Jules Evans

Previous episode: The Dangers of "Ayahuasca Told Me…" with Jerónimo Mazarrasa

Psychedelic Medicine Association

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In this episode, Jodie NewDelman, PsyD joins to discuss the benefits and risks of leveraging psychedelics for professional growth. For over three decades, Dr. NewDelman has been an executive consultant, health system advisor, licensed psychologist, and clinical supervisor. She is also trained and certificated in psychedelic medicine and has been working with growth-oriented professionals developing greater alignment between their leadership roles at work and their personal lives.

In this conversation, Dr. NewDelman discusses the typical struggles people experience in their professional lives and where psychedelic experiences may provide insight and empowerment to become more aligned with one’s work. She unpacks the psychological experience of being “stuck,” something that psychedelics may specifically help overcome. 

Beyond individualistic approaches to professional growth, Dr. NewDelman also discusses the importance of humanizing the workforce and how conscious leadership is crucial to achieve this goal. In closing, Dr. NewDelman warns against the danger of trying to implement radical changes after a psychedelic experience without sufficient integration, emphasizing the importance of a holistic approach to this work. 

In this episode, you'll hear:

• Navigating feelings of imposter syndrome and experiences of marginalization
• The importance of work life balance and how to psychedelic experiences can empower reflection on this topic
• Why clear intention is crucial for leveraging psychedelic experiences for professional growth
• The danger of spiritual bypassing after profound psychedelic experiences

Quotes:

“No matter who you are, you're going to have your own set of intentions. The intentions will be bespoke. And maybe you don't know the first or second time what you want to work on when you go into it—an experiential medicine session. But eventually we can narrow those themes down to what it is that we really need insight on.” [22:01]

“if you need to focus on some nitty gritty, annoying detail [at work], no matter how transcendent your perspective is in your psychedelic medicine session, you still have to do the thing at work. You still have to make the practical changes. So we need to kind of stay tethered to reality in that way.” [38:58]

“Our tendency is to avoid pain, right? We want to go away from the obstacles. And if psychedelics teach us nothing else, it's that we need to go through the storm. We need to turn toward the issue.” [40:25]

Links:

Essensuate website

Essensuate on Instagram

Essensuate on LinkedIn  

Essensuate on Facebook 

What Are The Habits of Mind? - The Institute for the Habits of Mind

Previous episode: Psilocybin for Addressing Burnout with Tracy Kim Townsend, MD

Psychedelic Medicine Association

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Email: [email protected]

In this episode, Tracy Kim Townsend, MD, joins to discuss the potential efficacy of psilocybin therapy for addressing burnout, particularly in healthcare professionals. Dr. Townsend is a Harvard-trained medical doctor, licensed psilocybin facilitator, and the Co-Founder & CEO of Meadow Medicine, one of the only legal psilocybin service centers based in the U.S., founded and led by an MD.

In this conversation, Dr. Townsend gives an overview of burnout and discusses its prevalence amongst healthcare professionals due to the intense nature of these professions. She mentions the relevance of the wounded healer archetype for many physicians and how this identity can intersect with experiences of burnout. Turning to psilocybin therapy, Dr. Townsend discusses how these psychedelic treatments can help address burnout through promoting neuroplasticity and facilitating effective emotional processing. Following these experiences, patients are often much better poised to make well-considered life changes to help stave off burnout. Dr. Townsend concludes by emphasizing the importance of integration following psychedelic journeys to ensure maximal benefit and effectiveness of these treatments. 

In this episode, you'll hear:

• How burnout develops
• How technology and culture have contributed to the rise of burnout
• The symptoms of burnout
• Supporting career longevity for physicians
• How psilocybin may support patients looking to address burnout
• Clinical research into psilocybin for burnout in healthcare professionals
• Why loosening the grip on one’s identity and ego dissolution may be tied to the therapeutic benefits of psychedelics

Quotes:

“One core area that I see psilocybin playing a role [for addressing burnout] is just creating these spaces where we can process emotions and integrate them.” [21:41]

“SSRIs, which are the gold standard intervention right now for depression, usually result in about a nine-point drop [in depression scores on the Montgomery-Åsberg Depression Rating Scale], which is really no better than placebo… Whereas psilocybin showed a three-fold drop—there’s really no intervention for depression we see with that dramatic of results.” [25:17]

“Another thing that I think is remarkable, too is… you continue to see the benefits—if you check scores immediately after the [psilocybin] journey and then at six months out, there continues to be improvement in mental health scores.” [29:06]

Links:

Dr. Townsend on Instagram

Dr. Townsend on X

Meadow Medicine website 

“Psilocybin Therapy for Clinicians With Symptoms of Depression From Frontline Care During the COVID-19 Pandemic: A Randomized Clinical Trial” by Anthony L. Back, MD et al.

Psychedelic Medicine Association

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In this episode, Christina P. Kantzavelos, LCSW, MSW, MLIS joins to discuss the use of psychedelics to address chronic illness. Christina is an international psychotherapist, coach, writer and artist, who specializes in treating clients with chronic illness, and complex trauma utilizing various modalities, including psychedelic assisted therapy.

In this conversation, Christina overviews the complex mental and physical health impacts of chronic pain conditions and shares her expertise on psychedelic and non-psychedelic treatments for these conditions. Christina mentions that chronic pain can put one’s body in a state that encourages fight, flight, freeze, and fawn responses which can disempower the patient’s efforts to address their condition. She also explores the intersection of identity and chronic pain conditions, discussing how that while receiving a particular diagnosis can be helpful and affirming, taking this as a core part of one’s identity can also be a major roadblock to healing. In closing, Christina emphasizes that pain starts in the brain, so leveraging neuroplasticity through psychedelics and other means can be a particularly powerful way to address both physical and mental health aspects of chronic pain conditions. 

In this episode you'll hear:

How Christina got involved in working with patients with chronic pain

The common mental health presentations in those with chronic pain

The importance of addressing physical health and mental health concurrently 

Why psychedelics may be helpful for addressing chronic pain conditions

The immunomodulating effects of psychedelics

The power of neuroplasticity for addressing chronic pain 

Utilizing neural retraining and microdosing in conjunction to prepare for more successful higher dose psychedelic experiences

Quotes:

“I use all kinds of modalities and I don’t just treat someone’s depression or anxiety or complex trauma—I see it as everything is interwoven and related to each other. And it’s important that we look at the entirely mosaic piece rather than just focusing on one area.” [5:20]

“There is a state of empowerment versus disempowerment in identifying with our chronic illness. I’m not saying that it is not real and it's not happening to you but it definitely is not you. It’s something you are experiencing. Even if it’s chronic and lifelong, it’s still something you are experiencing—it’s not you as a whole.” [17:48]

“I’ve noticed that any of my clients who have gone through neural retraining have had little to no bad [psychedelic] trips which is amazing and I feel like that’s partly because they worked so hard to resource themselves in advance.” [25:19]

Links:

Christina on Instagram

Christina on LinkedIn

Begin with Today website

When the Body Says No: The Cost of Hidden Stress by Gabor Maté

PMA CME/CE accredited course: Managing Medical Risk in Patients Seeking Psilocybin Therapy

Search for providers on the Psychology Today website

Psychedelic Medicine Association

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In this episode, Jerónimo Mazarrasa joins to discuss how to interpret visions and insights disclosed during ayahuasca journeys more effectively. Jerónimo is Program Director at ICEERS, founder of ICEERS Academy, and creator of AyaSafety, an online course for people interested in increasing the safety of ayahuasca ceremonies.

To start, Jerónimo emphasizes that answering the question of whether ayahuasca visions originate in the plant medicine itself or if these are just disclosures of one’s own subconscious is actually not what's most important. Instead, he suggests that in either case, what is crucial is spending time carefully considering how one should respond to these disclosures. Jerónimo shares insights from expert facilitators on how one can best go about interpreting and responding to such experiences, suggesting that an important aspect of this process is that participants feel comfortable taking personal responsibility for whatever decisions they eventually decide to make rather than thinking of these major life changes as necessary consequences of the psychedelic experience itself. In closing, Jerónimo discusses the tension between externalization and psychologization of psychedelic experiences and why both of these can lead to issues. 

In this episode, you'll hear:

• The common experience of feeling as though the ayahuasca has communicated something to you
• Examples of where taking an ayahuasca vision literally can lead to problematic outcomes 
• The “three confirmations” one should look for before making a major decision based on a psychedelic experience
• The metaphor of ayahuasca as a microscope
• How skilled ayahuasca facilitators ensure proper psychological hygiene with participants
• Judging the validity of potential repressed memories that seem to surface during psychedelic experiences

Quotes:

“The way that ayahuasca becomes useful for people, I think, is that it shows you—it amplifies and shows you—what is already inside of yourself. Now, this is very useful for certain things but one has to understand the nature of the language.”  [9:23]

“Facilitators should instruct their participants that one rule is that you shouldn’t make any decisions during an ayahuasca ceremony—unless they are decisions related to taking yourself out of danger.” [14:42]

“Ayahuasca is not a shortcut for personal development—it’s just a flashlight that can help you shed some light on some darker parts of [your] issues and problems, but it is not a shortcut.” [35:47]

“The main contraindication of psychedelics is not wanting to take psychedelics. You should absolutely never ever ever ever ever take psychedelics if you don’t want to because it is going to be horrible. It’s like a kiss—when you want it, its beautiful, intimate, gorgeous; when you don’t want it, it's the most intrusive, disgusting, blech thing ever.” [50:27]

Links:

Jerónimo on Instagram

Jerónimo on Facebook

ICEERS Academy website

ICEERS Academy on Instagram

AyaSafety course 

Previous episode: Guruism and Cult Dynamics in Psychedelic Practices with Joseph Holcomb Adams

Previous episode: Can Psychedelics Lead to False Beliefs? with Hugh McGovern, PhD

Psychedelic Medicine Association

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