Third Space Podcast

 This is part two of a two part conversation with Jordan Daniel Wood. In this first part, we discussed a recent lecture that Jordan presented about the development of the Church's teachings on Hell, as well as what he proposed for possible future developments. The second part of our conversation focuses on how a “massa damnata” position on Hell distorts the character of God and his goodness while also leading to a culture of fear and spiritual coercion.

If you haven't listened to part one, I would encourage you to go back and listen to that now before you listen to part two.

Also, this is the last episode of this season. I'll be taking the summer off. I will have new episodes being released in the fall. Thanks so much for listening.

Jordan Daniel Wood is Assistant Professor of Theology at Belmont University, in Nashville, TN. He's the author of The Whole Mystery of Christ: Creation as Incarnation in Maximus Confessor (Notre Dame Press, 2022), and is nearing completion of the first complete English translation of Maximus's letters. He lives outside of Nashville with his lovely wife and four daughters.

LINKS:

Jordan’s “The Future of Hell” serieshttps://jordandanielwood.substack.com/p/the-future-of-hell

Pope Francis Generation podcast episode: Jordan Daniel Wood - Hell and Universalismhttps://www.catholicthirdspace.com/p/jordan-daniel-wood-hell-and-universalism

ABOUT THIRD SPACE: Third Space is the podcast for those who see the beauty of Catholicism, as well as the ugliness, who have experienced real harm AND real grace in the Church. Every episode I will have conversations with guests about the good and the bad in the Church—avoiding easy answers or black & white fundamentalism—in order to hold on to all that is true.

SUPPORT THIS SHOW: Please consider becoming a paid subscriber. All of your support directly helps my family and allows me to continue working on projects like this podcast, the newsletter, as well as resources about spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church.

www.catholicthirdspace.com

ABOUT THE HOST: Paul Fahey lives in Michigan with his wife and five kids. He is a limited licensed professional counselor, retreat leader, and catechist. He is a co-founder of Where Peter Is, founder and co-host of the Pope Francis Generation podcast, and the host of the Third Space podcast. He seeks to provide pastoral counseling for Catholics who have been spiritually abused, counseling for Catholic ministers, and counseling education so that ministers are more equipped to help others in their ministry.

 This is part one of a two-part conversation with Jordan Daniel Wood. In this first part, we discuss a recent lecture that Jordan presented about the development of the Church's teachings on Hell, as well as what he proposes for possible future developments. The second part of our conversation focuses on how a “massa damnata” position on Hell distorts the character of God and his goodness while also leading to a culture of fear and spiritual coercion.

Jordan Daniel Wood is Assistant Professor of Theology at Belmont University, in Nashville, TN. He's the author of The Whole Mystery of Christ: Creation as Incarnation in Maximus Confessor (Notre Dame Press, 2022), and is nearing completion of the first complete English translation of Maximus's letters. He lives outside of Nashville with his lovely wife and four daughters.

LINKS:

Jordan’s “The Future of Hell” serieshttps://jordandanielwood.substack.com/p/the-future-of-hell

Pope Francis Generation podcast episode: Jordan Daniel Wood - Hell and Universalismhttps://www.catholicthirdspace.com/p/jordan-daniel-wood-hell-and-universalism

ABOUT THIRD SPACE: Third Space is the podcast for those who see the beauty of Catholicism, as well as the ugliness, who have experienced real harm AND real grace in the Church. Every episode I will have conversations with guests about the good and the bad in the Church—avoiding easy answers or black & white fundamentalism—in order to hold on to all that is true.

SUPPORT THIS SHOW: Please consider becoming a paid subscriber. All of your support directly helps my family and allows me to continue working on projects like this podcast, the newsletter, as well as resources about spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church.

www.catholicthirdspace.com

ABOUT THE HOST: Paul Fahey lives in Michigan with his wife and five kids. He is a limited licensed professional counselor, retreat leader, and catechist. He is a co-founder of Where Peter Is, founder and co-host of the Pope Francis Generation podcast, and the host of the Third Space podcast. He seeks to provide pastoral counseling for Catholics who have been spiritually abused, counseling for Catholic ministers, and counseling education so that ministers are more equipped to help others in their ministry.

I’m grateful to share this conversation I had with Mark Joseph Williams. Mark shares his story of healing and recovery from clerical abuse, addiction, and trauma. He talks about how God worked in his life in the midst of trauma and how it was through the Catholic Church, the place where he experienced harm, that he also experienced healing. Mark also shares about where he would like to see reform in the Church regarding safeguarding and justice for survivors.

Mark and I recorded this conversation during Holy Week, just a few days before the news of Pope Francis’s death.

Mark Joseph Williams is a forensic psychological clinician with an MS in social work from Columbia. A clerical abuse survivor, he co-founded Global Collaborative, a survivor led organization, and represents the Archdiocese of Newark as Special Advisor. He also serves on the North American Safeguarding Committee of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops. He and his wife, Karen, have four grown children and seven grandchildren. He is the author of Torrent of Grace: A Catholic Survivor's Healing Journey after Clergy Abuse.

LINKS:

Torrent of Grace: A Catholic Survivor's Healing Journey after Clergy Abusehttps://www.amazon.com/Torrent-Grace-Catholic-Survivors-Healing/dp/1626985960

Field Hospital podcast: Mark Joseph Williamshttps://uscatholic.org/articles/202204/field-hospital-mark-joseph-williams/

ABOUT THIRD SPACE: Third Space is the podcast for those who see the beauty of Catholicism, as well as the ugliness, who have experienced real harm AND real grace in the Church. Every episode I will have conversations with guests about the good and the bad in the Church—avoiding easy answers or black & white fundamentalism—in order to hold on to all that is true.

SUPPORT THIS SHOW: Please consider becoming a paid subscriber. All of your support directly helps my family and allows me to continue working on projects like this podcast, the newsletter, as well as resources about spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church.

www.catholicthirdspace.com

ABOUT THE HOST: Paul Fahey lives in Michigan with his wife and five kids. He is a limited licensed professional counselor, retreat leader, and catechist. He is a co-founder of Where Peter Is, founder and co-host of the Pope Francis Generation podcast, and the host of the Third Space podcast. He seeks to provide pastoral counseling for Catholics who have been spiritually abused, counseling for Catholic ministers, and counseling education so that ministers are more equipped to help others in their ministry.

Today, I wanted to share a conversation I had a couple weeks ago with Ann Yeong for her podcast, Becoming Me. After attending one of my workshops, Ann invited me on her podcast to talk about the Church’s teaching on human dignity, spiritual abuse, and navigating the Church in the midst of religious trauma. It was so good to have this conversation with Ann. I hope you enjoy listening.

Ann Yeong is the Founder of Integrō Formation and the host of the Becoming Me podcast. Ann has over 15 years of experience in human and spiritual formation in the Catholic Church in Singapore. She served as Director, Youth & Young Adults Office in the Church of St Mary of the Angels and started the first parish-based Office for New Evangelisation in Singapore in 2012.

In 2014, Ann left full-time parish employment to focus on speaking about the interior life and meeting individuals & small groups for spiritual conversation and formation. Ann is particularly passionate about: the lived experience of complex trauma and spiritual/religious trauma's impact on our relationship with God; the existential crisis of spiritual midlife 'deconstruction' that often happens as an integral part of healing and truth-seeking; and developing a mature, trauma-informed Christ-centered contemplative spirituality

LINKS:

Integrō Formationhttps://www.integroformation.com/

Becoming Me podcasthttps://www.becomingmepodcast.com/episodes/

Watch this episode on Ann’s Youtube channelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCPH12XvCoM

ABOUT THIRD SPACE: Third Space is the podcast for those who see the beauty of Catholicism, as well as the ugliness, who have experienced real harm AND real grace in the Church. Every episode I will have conversations with guests about the good and the bad in the Church—avoiding easy answers or black & white fundamentalism—in order to hold on to all that is true.

SUPPORT THIS SHOW: Please consider becoming a paid subscriber. All of your support directly helps my family and allows me to continue working on projects like this podcast, the newsletter, as well as resources about spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church.

www.catholicthirdspace.com

ABOUT THE HOST: Paul Fahey lives in Michigan with his wife and five kids. He is a limited licensed professional counselor, retreat leader, and catechist. He is a co-founder of Where Peter Is, founder and co-host of the Pope Francis Generation podcast, and the host of the Third Space podcast. He seeks to provide pastoral counseling for Catholics who have been spiritually abused, counseling for Catholic ministers, and counseling education so that ministers are more equipped to help others in their ministry.

In today’s episode, I had a great conversation with Dr. Joseph Stuart about a kind of obscure document from Pope Francis from last year about the renewal of the study of Church history. Joseph and I talked about the ways that ideologies within the Church, both progressive and traditional, misuse history for their own agendas. We also discuss the need for the Church to be honest about its own history of oppression and opposition to human dignity.

Joseph T. Stuart, Ph.D., is Full Professor of History and Fellow of Catholic Studies at the University of Mary in Bismarck, North Dakota. His research and publications concern the life and work of cultural historian Christopher Dawson, the cultural history of the Great War, and the Enlightenment of the eighteenth century. He is the author of three books: Christopher Dawson: A Cultural Mind in the Age of the Great War; The Church and the Age of Reformations (1350–1650): Martin Luther, the Renaissance, and the Council of Trent; and Rethinking the Enlightenment: Faith in the Age of Reason.

LINKS

Letter of His Holiness Pope Francis on the Renewal of the Study of Church Historyhttps://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/letters/2024/documents/20241121-lettera-storia-chiesa.html

Rethinking the Enlightenment: Faith in the Age of Reasonhttps://www.amazon.com/Rethinking-Enlightenment-Faith-Age-Reason/dp/1622828224

Pope Francis Generation podcast episode with Joseph Stuart - Engaging with Secular Culturehttps://www.catholicthirdspace.com/p/joseph-stuart-engaging-with-secular

ABOUT THIRD SPACE: Third Space is the podcast for those who see the beauty of Catholicism, as well as the ugliness, who have experienced real harm AND real grace in the Church. Every episode I will have conversations with guests about the good and the bad in the Church—avoiding easy answers or black & white fundamentalism—in order to hold on to all that is true.

SUPPORT THIS SHOW: Please consider becoming a paid subscriber. All of your support directly helps my family and allows me to continue working on projects like this podcast, the newsletter, as well as resources about spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church.

www.catholicthirdspace.com

ABOUT THE HOST: Paul Fahey lives in Michigan with his wife and five kids. He is a limited licensed professional counselor, retreat leader, and catechist. He is a co-founder of Where Peter Is, founder and co-host of the Pope Francis Generation podcast, and the host of the Third Space podcast. He seeks to provide pastoral counseling for Catholics who have been spiritually abused, counseling for Catholic ministers, and counseling education so that ministers are more equipped to help others in their ministry.