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BE THAT LAWYER is for attorneys who want more freedom, enjoyment and most importantly, control in their career. Topics will include business development, marketing, branding, technology, and law firm growth. The goal is to educate, entertain and share best practices related to these topics, so that you, the listener can get real value. This is primarily an interview show with great guests (attorneys and legal marketing professionals), sharing stories and analogies, as well as engaging in personal discussions that will keep you entertained and coming back week after week.
BE THAT LAWYER is for attorneys who want more freedom, enjoyment and most importantly, control in their career. Topics will include business development, marketing, branding, technology, and law firm growth. The goal is to educate, entertain and share best practices related to these topics, so that you, the listener can get real value. This is primarily an interview show with great guests (attorneys and legal marketing professionals), sharing stories and analogies, as well as engaging in personal discussions that will keep you entertained and coming back week after week.
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Rafi Arbel is the founder of Market JD, a digital marketing agency specializing in serving consumer law firms. Previously a trial attorney, Rafi now leverages his experience to assist personal injury, criminal defense, family, and immigration lawyers in expanding their practices through strategies like SEO, PPC, and the development of high-converting websites. He is a recognized authority on legal marketing strategy, building referral networks, and law firm growth.
Rafi Arbel is the founder of Market JD, a digital marketing agency specializing in serving consumer law firms. Previously a trial attorney, Rafi now leverages his experience to assist personal injury, criminal defense, family, and immigration lawyers in expanding their practices through strategies like SEO, PPC, and the development of high-converting websites. He is a recognized authority on legal marketing strategy, building referral networks, and law firm growth.
Seth Price is a seasoned marketing and branding expert with over two decades of experience in digital marketing. He has consulted for more than 300 companies, including 19 of the Fortune 500, and has helped build four multimillion-dollar companies from the ground up. As VP of Marketing at Placester, he has guided tens of thousands of real estate professionals through social media and content strategies, and he also founded the Real Estate Marketing Academy, which reaches over 75,000 marketers monthly. A recognized thought leader, Seth is a frequent keynote speaker and contributor to outlets like Entrepreneur, Forbes, and REALTOR.com. He is also the author of The Road to Recognition, a go-to guide for building personal brands in the digital age.
Seth Price is a seasoned marketing and branding expert with over two decades of experience in digital marketing. He has consulted for more than 300 companies, including 19 of the Fortune 500, and has helped build four multimillion-dollar companies from the ground up. As VP of Marketing at Placester, he has guided tens of thousands of real estate professionals through social media and content strategies, and he also founded the Real Estate Marketing Academy, which reaches over 75,000 marketers monthly. A recognized thought leader, Seth is a frequent keynote speaker and contributor to outlets like Entrepreneur, Forbes, and REALTOR.com. He is also the author of The Road to Recognition, a go-to guide for building personal brands in the digital age.
Claire E. Parsons is a Cincinnati-based attorney practicing in school law, employment law, and litigation. In addition to her legal work, she focuses on integrating mindfulness and emotional resilience into professional practice.
Claire E. Parsons is a Cincinnati-based attorney practicing in school law, employment law, and litigation. In addition to her legal work, she focuses on integrating mindfulness and emotional resilience into professional practice.
Shireen Hilal is the CEO of Maior, a boutique consultancy that helps law firms with strategic and operational support, including go-to-market solutions and addressing pain points and plateaus.
Shireen Hilal is the CEO of Maior, a boutique consultancy that helps law firms with strategic and operational support, including go-to-market solutions and addressing pain points and plateaus.
Christopher T. Anderson is a lifelong entrepreneur and attorney with a deep passion for helping law firm owners build practices that align with their goals, values, and vision.
Christopher T. Anderson is a lifelong entrepreneur and attorney with a deep passion for helping law firm owners build practices that align with their goals, values, and vision.
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The Sales-Free Selling Lawyer Coach, Plane Crash Survivor, Four-time Author, Host of the BE THAT LAWYER podcast. With FRETZIN, Lawyers have their best year, every year.
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Episodes
Here's the recent few episodes on BE THAT LAWYER.
0:0030:37
Rafi Arbel: Turning Consistent Effort Into Business Growth and Brand Visibility
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Rafi Arbel discuss:
Persistence is a key element in long-term marketing and outreach
The impact of in-person networking on professional relationships
Blending digital tools with personal follow-up strategies
System-building as a solution for scaling and stabilizing a business
Key Takeaways:
Attending legal trade shows and following up with structured CRM tools like HubSpot or even a spreadsheet is crucial for relationship-driven client acquisition.
AI tools like Fathom are effectively used post-Zoom calls to generate meeting summaries, action items, and even tailored follow-up emails.
A major operational failurelosing a key employee without SOPsled to the implementation of structured daily team meetings and detailed task documentation using ClickUp and SweetProcess.
Personalized outreach, such as sending curated articles based on someone's interests or social media activity, is a highly effective way to maintain engagement with referral sources.
"The reason the water cuts through the rock is that it is a constant, constantly hitting it with small forces. And that's really what we're doing in marketing." Rafi Arbel
Unlock the secrets of the industry's top rainmakers with Be That Lawyer: 101 Top Rainmakers Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice. Grab your ultimate guide to building a thriving law firm now on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F78HXJHT
Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Dont miss PIMCONwhere the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/
Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session nowlet's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/
About Rafi Arbel: Rafi Arbel is the founder of Market JD, a digital marketing agency for consumer law firms. A former trial attorney, Rafi helps personal injury, criminal defense, family, and immigration lawyers grow their practices through SEO, PPC, and high-converting websites. Hes a recognized voice on legal marketing strategy, referral network building, and law firm growth.
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Rafi Arbel discuss:
Persistence is a key element in long-term marketing and outreach
The impact of in-person networking on professional relationships
Blending digital tools with personal follow-up strategies
System-building as a solution for scaling and stabilizing a business
Key Takeaways:
Attending legal trade shows and following up with structured CRM tools like HubSpot or even a spreadsheet is crucial for relationship-driven client acquisition.
AI tools like Fathom are effectively used post-Zoom calls to generate meeting summaries, action items, and even tailored follow-up emails.
A major operational failurelosing a key employee without SOPsled to the implementation of structured daily team meetings and detailed task documentation using ClickUp and SweetProcess.
Personalized outreach, such as sending curated articles based on someone's interests or social media activity, is a highly effective way to maintain engagement with referral sources.
"The reason the water cuts through the rock is that it is a constant, constantly hitting it with small forces. And that's really what we're doing in marketing." Rafi Arbel
Unlock the secrets of the industry's top rainmakers with Be That Lawyer: 101 Top Rainmakers Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice. Grab your ultimate guide to building a thriving law firm now on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F78HXJHT
Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Dont miss PIMCONwhere the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/
Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session nowlet's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/
About Rafi Arbel: Rafi Arbel is the founder of Market JD, a digital marketing agency for consumer law firms. A former trial attorney, Rafi helps personal injury, criminal defense, family, and immigration lawyers grow their practices through SEO, PPC, and high-converting websites. Hes a recognized voice on legal marketing strategy, referral network building, and law firm growth.
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Seth Price discuss:
Challenges of marketing and business development for lawyers and law firms
Strategic differences between B2B and B2C legal marketing
Importance of content creation and personal branding in legal marketing
Lessons from entrepreneurial growth and mistakes in legal and digital ventures
Key Takeaways:
Lawyers in B2B markets should avoid SEO as a first strategy and instead build relationships through networking, targeted events, or personalized outreach.
Creating consistent, niche-specific content on LinkedIn is a powerful yet underutilized strategy for establishing authority in legal fields.
Delegating legal versus business responsibilities within a firm can allow for more focused and scalable growth, as seen in the speaker's dual-leadership model.
Trying to network with senior lawyers often yields less return than building long-term relationships with peers who grow into referral sources over time.
"If you create great content over time... you may not get a ton of interaction, but the people that are interested are going to find it, and you're going to be that guy." — Seth Price
Unlock the secrets of the industry's top rainmakers with Be That Lawyer: 101 Top Rainmakers’ Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice. Grab your ultimate guide to building a thriving law firm now on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F78HXJHT
Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/
Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/
About Seth Price: Seth Price is a seasoned marketing and branding expert with over two decades of experience in digital marketing. He has consulted for more than 300 companies, including 19 of the Fortune 500, and has helped build four multimillion-dollar companies from the ground up. As VP of Marketing at Placester, he has guided tens of thousands of real estate professionals through social media and content strategies, and he also founded the Real Estate Marketing Academy, which reaches over 75,000 marketers monthly. A recognized thought leader, Seth is a frequent keynote speaker and contributor to outlets like Entrepreneur, Forbes, and REALTOR.com. He is also the author of The Road to Recognition, a go-to guide for building personal brands in the digital age.
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Seth Price discuss:
Challenges of marketing and business development for lawyers and law firms
Strategic differences between B2B and B2C legal marketing
Importance of content creation and personal branding in legal marketing
Lessons from entrepreneurial growth and mistakes in legal and digital ventures
Key Takeaways:
Lawyers in B2B markets should avoid SEO as a first strategy and instead build relationships through networking, targeted events, or personalized outreach.
Creating consistent, niche-specific content on LinkedIn is a powerful yet underutilized strategy for establishing authority in legal fields.
Delegating legal versus business responsibilities within a firm can allow for more focused and scalable growth, as seen in the speaker's dual-leadership model.
Trying to network with senior lawyers often yields less return than building long-term relationships with peers who grow into referral sources over time.
"If you create great content over time... you may not get a ton of interaction, but the people that are interested are going to find it, and you're going to be that guy." — Seth Price
Unlock the secrets of the industry's top rainmakers with Be That Lawyer: 101 Top Rainmakers’ Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice. Grab your ultimate guide to building a thriving law firm now on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F78HXJHT
Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/
Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/
About Seth Price: Seth Price is a seasoned marketing and branding expert with over two decades of experience in digital marketing. He has consulted for more than 300 companies, including 19 of the Fortune 500, and has helped build four multimillion-dollar companies from the ground up. As VP of Marketing at Placester, he has guided tens of thousands of real estate professionals through social media and content strategies, and he also founded the Real Estate Marketing Academy, which reaches over 75,000 marketers monthly. A recognized thought leader, Seth is a frequent keynote speaker and contributor to outlets like Entrepreneur, Forbes, and REALTOR.com. He is also the author of The Road to Recognition, a go-to guide for building personal brands in the digital age.
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Claire Parsons discuss:
Integrating mindfulness into high-pressure professional environments
Navigating mental health challenges while maintaining demanding careers
Rethinking traditional views on business development for introverts
Building emotional resilience and clarity through intentional daily practices
Key Takeaways:
Starting with just one minute of daily meditation can create subtle but lasting shifts in emotional regulation, clarity, and resilience under pressure.
Mindfulness doesn’t eliminate stress but reshapes how it’s processed, making space for more grounded decisions and healthier coping habits.
Emotional regulation skills gained through meditation reduce fear of rejection, making business development feel less risky and more authentic.
Practices like breathwork, body scans, and loving-kindness help professionals stay centered during conflict, reconnect with purpose, and act from intention rather than reactivity.
"A lot of law practice involves a gut check… and you have to consistently check in with your values to make sure you're representing your client as best you can." — Claire Parsons
Unlock the secrets of the industry's top rainmakers with Be That Lawyer: 101 Top Rainmakers’ Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice. Grab your ultimate guide to building a thriving law firm now on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F78HXJHT
Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/
Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/
About Claire Parsons: Claire E. Parsons is a Cincinnati-based attorney practicing in school law, employment law, and litigation. In addition to her legal work, she teaches mindfulness and compassion to lawyers and professionals and frequently shares her insights on these topics through her blog, Brilliant Legal Mind, and her published books. Claire draws on both personal experience and formal training to make mindfulness practices accessible, practical, and effective for busy professionals. Her work blends deep legal expertise with a commitment to well-being, helping others find clarity and resilience in high-pressure environments.
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Claire Parsons discuss:
Integrating mindfulness into high-pressure professional environments
Navigating mental health challenges while maintaining demanding careers
Rethinking traditional views on business development for introverts
Building emotional resilience and clarity through intentional daily practices
Key Takeaways:
Starting with just one minute of daily meditation can create subtle but lasting shifts in emotional regulation, clarity, and resilience under pressure.
Mindfulness doesn’t eliminate stress but reshapes how it’s processed, making space for more grounded decisions and healthier coping habits.
Emotional regulation skills gained through meditation reduce fear of rejection, making business development feel less risky and more authentic.
Practices like breathwork, body scans, and loving-kindness help professionals stay centered during conflict, reconnect with purpose, and act from intention rather than reactivity.
"A lot of law practice involves a gut check… and you have to consistently check in with your values to make sure you're representing your client as best you can." — Claire Parsons
Unlock the secrets of the industry's top rainmakers with Be That Lawyer: 101 Top Rainmakers’ Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice. Grab your ultimate guide to building a thriving law firm now on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F78HXJHT
Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/
Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/
About Claire Parsons: Claire E. Parsons is a Cincinnati-based attorney practicing in school law, employment law, and litigation. In addition to her legal work, she teaches mindfulness and compassion to lawyers and professionals and frequently shares her insights on these topics through her blog, Brilliant Legal Mind, and her published books. Claire draws on both personal experience and formal training to make mindfulness practices accessible, practical, and effective for busy professionals. Her work blends deep legal expertise with a commitment to well-being, helping others find clarity and resilience in high-pressure environments.
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Shireen Hilal discuss:
Navigating modern law firm strategy in a rapidly evolving legal market
Improving internal operations and team culture to boost law firm performance
Enhancing client engagement and retention amid budget constraints
Leveraging cross-selling and business development tactics within law firms
Key Takeaways:
Law firms that prioritize understanding and responding to their clients' future needs instead of mirroring competitors can unlock unique opportunities for differentiation and growth.
Clear and value-based billing practices—paired with proactive scope, time, and budget alignment—are essential to reinforcing client trust and maintaining healthy payment cycles.
Structured programs like internal expert briefings and strategic client lunches can make cross-selling more natural and effective by focusing on solving client problems rather than pitching services.
Communicating pricing changes with context and care rather than through generic finance memos helps strengthen client relationships and reinforces long-term loyalty.
"The problem with obsessing about your competition instead of your clients is that, if you do, you are almost, by definition, falling in the middle. So the better way to get ahead, I think, is to be client-obsessed." — Shireen Hilal
Unlock the secrets of the industry's top rainmakers with Be That Lawyer: 101 Top Rainmakers’ Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice. Grab your ultimate guide to building a thriving law firm now on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F78HXJHT
Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/
About Shireen Hilal: Shireen is the CEO of Maior, a boutique consultancy that helps law firms with their pain points and plateaus with strategic and operational support, ranging from go-to-market solutions and profitability programs to process improvement and enhancing employee engagement.
Before starting Maior, Shireen spent a decade practicing at AmLaw100 firms and then had the privilege of serving in several executive roles: COO of a national law firm (where she increased revenue by 20%, profits per partner by 30%, and achieved "best place to work" accolades), pivoting strategy and operations for enterprise firms (KPMG and BDO), and building out the growth division of a communications consulting firm.
Through Maior, she now helps growing firms skyrocket, early-stage firms maintain their "special sauce" as they scale, and mature firms with a fresh perspective.
Shireen also serves on the advisory board of a Top 100 accounting and advisory firm and writes a quarterly column for Law360 answering law firm leaders' questions.
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Shireen Hilal discuss:
Navigating modern law firm strategy in a rapidly evolving legal market
Improving internal operations and team culture to boost law firm performance
Enhancing client engagement and retention amid budget constraints
Leveraging cross-selling and business development tactics within law firms
Key Takeaways:
Law firms that prioritize understanding and responding to their clients' future needs instead of mirroring competitors can unlock unique opportunities for differentiation and growth.
Clear and value-based billing practices—paired with proactive scope, time, and budget alignment—are essential to reinforcing client trust and maintaining healthy payment cycles.
Structured programs like internal expert briefings and strategic client lunches can make cross-selling more natural and effective by focusing on solving client problems rather than pitching services.
Communicating pricing changes with context and care rather than through generic finance memos helps strengthen client relationships and reinforces long-term loyalty.
"The problem with obsessing about your competition instead of your clients is that, if you do, you are almost, by definition, falling in the middle. So the better way to get ahead, I think, is to be client-obsessed." — Shireen Hilal
Unlock the secrets of the industry's top rainmakers with Be That Lawyer: 101 Top Rainmakers’ Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice. Grab your ultimate guide to building a thriving law firm now on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F78HXJHT
Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/
About Shireen Hilal: Shireen is the CEO of Maior, a boutique consultancy that helps law firms with their pain points and plateaus with strategic and operational support, ranging from go-to-market solutions and profitability programs to process improvement and enhancing employee engagement.
Before starting Maior, Shireen spent a decade practicing at AmLaw100 firms and then had the privilege of serving in several executive roles: COO of a national law firm (where she increased revenue by 20%, profits per partner by 30%, and achieved "best place to work" accolades), pivoting strategy and operations for enterprise firms (KPMG and BDO), and building out the growth division of a communications consulting firm.
Through Maior, she now helps growing firms skyrocket, early-stage firms maintain their "special sauce" as they scale, and mature firms with a fresh perspective.
Shireen also serves on the advisory board of a Top 100 accounting and advisory firm and writes a quarterly column for Law360 answering law firm leaders' questions.
Christopher Anderson: Creating a Law Practice That Aligns with Your Goals, Time and Values
Guests
Guests of this podcast episode
Christopher Anderson
Keywords
Keywords of this podcast episode
law practice managementtime and life decisionssmall and large law firmspersonal clarityvalue-driven goal settingbusiness growthwork-life alignmentteam managementover-marketinghiring strategiesindustry rainmakers
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Christopher Anderson discuss:
Urgency and intentionality in how professionals approach time and life decisions
Operational and structural challenges faced by small and large law firms
Personal clarity and value-driven goal setting in legal careers
Misalignment between perceived business needs and actual areas for growth
Key Takeaways:
Many law firms suffer from an inefficient cycle of over-marketing when caseloads are low, followed by frantic hiring when they surge, resulting in chronic instability.
The most common and damaging mistake lawyers make is hiring help in areas they enjoy, rather than where they truly lack capability, such as fixing the "butterfly stroke."
True work-life alignment comes from clearly defining three things: how much income you need, how much time you're willing to trade for it, and what you're trying to accomplish personally and professionally.
Holding on to underperforming team members not only hurts your business but also deprives them of the opportunity to thrive elsewhere, and it's often best addressed through a third-party assessment.
"Too many people just go after the money, and then they realize, okay, I’m trading time for money. So the more money I want, the more time I trade, and that leads to misery." — Christopher Anderson
Unlock the secrets of the industry's top rainmakers with Be That Lawyer: 101 Top Rainmakers’ Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice. Grab your ultimate guide to building a thriving law firm now on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F78HXJHT
Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/
About Christopher Anderson: Christopher T. Anderson is a lifelong entrepreneur and attorney with a deep passion for helping law firm owners build practices that align with their goals, values, and vision. With nearly 30 years of experience, he draws from both wins and lessons learned across his ventures—including New Leaf Family, AndersonDodson, and Sunnyside Services, where he remains actively involved.
Known for testing every strategy on his firm before advising others, Christopher combines business acumen, legal insight, and a pilot’s clarity of focus to help law firm owners take control of their time, teams, and trajectory—on their terms.
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Christopher Anderson discuss:
Urgency and intentionality in how professionals approach time and life decisions
Operational and structural challenges faced by small and large law firms
Personal clarity and value-driven goal setting in legal careers
Misalignment between perceived business needs and actual areas for growth
Key Takeaways:
Many law firms suffer from an inefficient cycle of over-marketing when caseloads are low, followed by frantic hiring when they surge, resulting in chronic instability.
The most common and damaging mistake lawyers make is hiring help in areas they enjoy, rather than where they truly lack capability, such as fixing the "butterfly stroke."
True work-life alignment comes from clearly defining three things: how much income you need, how much time you're willing to trade for it, and what you're trying to accomplish personally and professionally.
Holding on to underperforming team members not only hurts your business but also deprives them of the opportunity to thrive elsewhere, and it's often best addressed through a third-party assessment.
"Too many people just go after the money, and then they realize, okay, I’m trading time for money. So the more money I want, the more time I trade, and that leads to misery." — Christopher Anderson
Unlock the secrets of the industry's top rainmakers with Be That Lawyer: 101 Top Rainmakers’ Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice. Grab your ultimate guide to building a thriving law firm now on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F78HXJHT
Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/
About Christopher Anderson: Christopher T. Anderson is a lifelong entrepreneur and attorney with a deep passion for helping law firm owners build practices that align with their goals, values, and vision. With nearly 30 years of experience, he draws from both wins and lessons learned across his ventures—including New Leaf Family, AndersonDodson, and Sunnyside Services, where he remains actively involved.
Known for testing every strategy on his firm before advising others, Christopher combines business acumen, legal insight, and a pilot’s clarity of focus to help law firm owners take control of their time, teams, and trajectory—on their terms.
