Allyship in Action Podcast

Katy Milkman is the James G. Dinan Professor at the Wharton School, the host of Charles Schwab's Choiceology podcast, and co-directs the Behavior Change for Good Initiative. Sophia Pink is a PhD student at the Wharton School studying decision-making and behavior change. They join Julie Kratz on the Allyship in Action podcast to discuss their new research on the gender gap in competition. They highlight that women are, on average, less likely to enter competitions (like applying for jobs or promotions) than equally qualified men, a phenomenon observed across many decades and countries, even at the top of the labor market.

Key takeaways form this conversation:

• The Persistent Gender Gap in Competitive Environments and Its Consequences: The discussion begins by establishing the well-documented phenomenon that women, on average, are less likely to enter competitions (like applying for jobs or promotions) than equally qualified men. The speakers emphasize that while this reluctance is not inherently negative in all contexts, it can significantly disadvantage women in crucial career advancement opportunities, particularly for leadership roles that often require navigating multiple competitive stages. This theme highlights the problem and its potential impact on gender equity in the workplace.

• Leveraging Psychological Insights for Intervention: The Power of Stereotype Reactance: The central focus of the new research is the innovative application of "stereotype reactance" as a potential solution. The researchers hypothesized and found that informing women about the existing gender gap in competition could paradoxically increase their likelihood of applying for jobs. This is attributed to women's potential desire to resist conforming to negative stereotypes and a motivation to take action against the observed inequality. This theme underscores the use of behavioral science principles to design effective interventions for addressing the gender gap.

• Systemic and Just-in-Time Approaches for Organizational Change: The conversation moves beyond individual behavior change to discuss broader organizational strategies. Recommendations include implementing "default" mechanisms where individuals are automatically considered for opportunities unless they opt out, and providing timely reminders or prompts at the point of decision-making. The speakers emphasize that while long-term cultural shifts are challenging, these more immediate, systemic adjustments and "just-in-time" interventions can create a more equitable playing field by mitigating the impact of confidence barriers and internalized norms. This theme focuses on practical, actionable steps organizations can take to address the competition gap and promote gender equity.

Actionable Allyship Takeaway:

When you see a woman hesitating to pursue an opportunity for which she is qualified, gently remind her of the gender competition gap by saying something like, "Hey, men tend to apply for this, don't let gender stereotypes hold you back," to encourage her to take the chance .

Check out their research at: https://pubsonline.informs.org/doi/10.1287/orsc.2024.19563

This episode of the Allyship in Action Podcast with Julie Kratz features Charlene Polite Corley, Nielsen's VP of Diverse Insights and Partnerships, and Stacie De Armas, Senior Vice President of Diverse Intelligence & Initiatives at Nielsen.

Together we discuss the long-term value of diversity for businesses, emphasizing that engaging historically excluded consumers is crucial for growth and brand loyalty. Stacie and Charlene highlight that while people can be "trickier" than money, diversifying your workforce and your approach to consumers is as important as diversifying your financial portfolio.  

Some key takeaways from this conversation:

• Diversity is a significant driver of business growth and ROI: Engaging with historically excluded consumer groups is essential for long-term business growth as they represent untapped markets and offer greater potential for building brand loyalty and achieving higher returns on marketing investment.
• Understanding nuanced cultural and consumption habits is crucial for effective marketing: A "copy-paste" approach to marketing is ineffective. Brands need to develop a deeper understanding of the media consumption habits and cultural nuances of diverse audiences to connect authentically and build lasting relationships. Data shows, for example, that Black, Hispanic, and Asian audiences spend significantly more time online.
• Centering diverse narratives benefits everyone and creates broader cultural impact: Focusing on representing specific communities authentically in content and advertising doesn't exclude other groups. Instead, it provides "windows" into different experiences, enriching everyone's understanding and often leading to broader cultural trends and significant financial success, as seen in sports and film.

Actionable Allyship Takeaway:

Organizations and individuals should actively lean into fear and commit to an inclusive data strategy, continually seeking to understand and meet diverse consumers where they are, knowing that it's both the right thing to do and a smart business decision that drives growth and loyalty, regardless of external pressures.    

Learn more about Charlene Polite Corley and Stacie De Armas and their research at: 

• https://www.nielsen.com/insights/2025/connecting-black-america/
• https://www.nielsen.com/news-center/2025/nielsen-report-asian-american-audiences-are-reshaping-sports-digital-media-and-beauty-trends/
• https://www.nielsen.com/about-us/business-inclusion-impact-belonging/hispanic/

Keivan Stassun is the Director of the Frist Center for Autism & Innovation at Vanderbilt University. He joins this week's Allyship in Action Podcast epidsode to unpack how to get the full ROI when appropriately practicing neuroinclusion.

Key Takeaways

• Neurodiversity drives innovation and strengthens teams: Keivan's experience in astrophysics, particularly the groundbreaking discovery made by his neurodiverse team, powerfully illustrates how embracing different cognitive styles leads to novel problem-solving and enhanced outcomes. Clear communication, beneficial for everyone, becomes essential in neurodiverse teams, ultimately making the entire team more effective.  
• Support for autistic individuals needs to extend into adulthood: While significant progress has been made in early intervention for autism, there's a critical need for increased focus and investment in supporting autistic adults in higher education and the workforce. This includes providing appropriate accommodations, fostering inclusive environments, and recognizing the unique strengths and contributions of this community.
• Creating inclusive opportunities benefits both individuals and organizations: Models like The Precisionists Inc. (TPI) demonstrate that tailored support and understanding of neurodivergent needs can lead to high-quality work, increased employee loyalty, and reduced errors. By shifting perspectives and implementing practical accommodations, businesses can tap into a valuable talent pool and achieve tangible benefits.

Key Quotes

• "I'm absolutely convinced that new discoveries and innovations happen because the team invited and included and supported the full diversity of thought." 

• "There has been so much less investment has been autistic people who are over 18 years old where people spend the majority of their lives in adulthood." 

Actionable Allyship Takeaway:

Recognize and actively leverage the unique strengths and talents of neurodiverse individuals while also providing necessary support and accommodations. Keivan emphasizes that focusing on both the support needs and the strengths of autistic individuals is crucial. He provides examples of how companies can benefit from the talents of neurodiverse employees (e.g., employee loyalty, attention to detail)  while also highlighting the importance of providing appropriate accommodations to ensure their success.

Find Keivan at https://my.vanderbilt.edu/kstassun/ and find Julie at https://www.nextpivotpoint.com/ 

Emily Kasriel is the author of Deep Listening: Transform your relationships with family, friends and foes. She joins the Allyship in Action Podcast this week to share insightful perspectives and practical tips on deep listening.

Key takeaways from the conversation:

• Deep listening goes beyond active listening. It's not just about repeating or paraphrasing, but about being truly present, understanding the emotions and underlying messages, and reflecting those back with humility.
• Self-awareness is crucial. Recognizing our own biases and "shadows" allows us to listen more openly to others.
• Silence is a powerful tool. Creating space in conversations allows for deeper reflection, creativity, and can shift power dynamics.
• Curiosity is key. Approaching conversations with a genuine desire to learn and understand, rather than to debate or convince, fosters connection. Asking about the origins of someone's beliefs can be particularly helpful.
• Listening doesn't equal agreement. It's important to remember that understanding someone's perspective doesn't mean you endorse it.
• Connecting with those who hold different views can be transformative. It can combat loneliness and foster social cohesion by recognizing our shared humanity.

Actionable Allyship Takeaway:

Cultivate curiosity and seek to understand the origins of others' beliefs, especially those different from your own. Emily emphasizes the importance of asking "what in your life experience has led you to feel what you do?" when engaging with someone who holds differing views. She explains that this approach can foster connection and understanding, even in the face of disagreement, by humanizing the other person's perspective and providing context.

For those interested in learning more, Emily's book, "Deep Listening: Transform your relationships with family, friends and foes," is available for preorder and will be released in the US on June 24th. You can also connect with her on LinkedIn and explore her website, https://www.emilykasriel.com/ , for more information on her work. Find Julie at https://www.nextpivotpoint.com/ 

Chéla Gage returns to talk about her new non-profit 1,000,000 Fosters. She shares her journey and the impact she hopes to create in this week's episode.

1. Chéla's journey to launching her nonprofit to support adults who have experienced foster care as youth. This initiative aims to provide transformative life and career coaching, foster personal growth and independence, and build a strong community for former foster youth. Chéla's personal experience growing up in foster care fuels her passion for this work, and she envisions the organization as a supportive network, similar to a fraternity or sorority, connecting individuals with resources and opportunities.
   
   

2. The goal of 1,000,000 Fosters is to empower former foster youth by leveraging their inherent resilience and providing mentorship and guidance. Chéla emphasizes the unique strengths developed through the foster care experience, such as independence, resilience, and adaptability. She plans to create masterclasses led by her network of professionals to offer support in areas like resume writing, storytelling, and navigating adulthood. Ultimately, she hopes to connect this talent pool with corporate sponsors, recognizing the valuable skills and perspectives these individuals bring to the workforce.
   
   

3. Chéla was inspired to start 1,000,000 Fosters by her desire to make a significant impact and by the powerful stories of connection and empowerment within the foster care community. A pivotal moment was an early podcast interview where a guest expressed the profound impact of sharing his story. This reinforced her belief in the importance of providing a platform for these voices and creating a sense of belonging. Despite the challenges of starting a nonprofit, including navigating the 501(c)(3) process, her determination and the encouragement from her advisors propelled her forward to create this much-needed support system.

Actionable Allyship Takeaway: Actively seek out and support the talent within underserved communities. Chéla envisions creating a talent database to connect employers with individuals who have experienced foster care, highlighting the unique strengths and resilience of this group. Chéla puts out a call to action for businesses and organizations to become allies by tapping into the potential of often-overlooked populations.

You can find Chéla and learn more about 1 Million Fosters online here: https://www.1millionfosters.com/ and you can find Julie Kratz at https://www.nextpivotpoint.com/